DIALOGUES
AND CHRISTIAN DOCTRINE
BY WHICH THE TWELVE FRIARS OF SAINT FRANCIS
SENT BY POPE ADRIAN VI AND THE EMPEROR CHARLES
V
CONVERTED THE INDIANS OF NEW SPAIN IN THE
MEXICAN AND SPANISH LANGUAGE
Fray
Bernardino de Sahagun
J. Jorge
Klor de Alva, translator
Darianna Reyes Márquez,
with Sofia Ortiz-Hinojosa, editor and transcriber for this edition.
Note on this selection
(by Patrick Frierson): This short selection offers the response of the Nahuatl
to the initial messages of the Fransciscan friars, along with the beginning of
the Friar’s response to them. Much of
the rest of the conversation has been lost, some is available in a longer
version of this dialogue (available here in a Nahuatl-English
version of the whole Dialogues and here with a cleaned-up version of just the
English translation (thanks to Darianna
Reyes Márquez and Sofia Ortiz-Hinojosa). One striking feature of this longer response
is the way that the Fransciscan friars retell the Biblical story of the Creation
and Fall of humanity with an emphasis on Catholic accounts of the Fall of the
rebellious angels (Satan and his ilk). That
version of the story, which emphasizes conflicts among angels, is reminscient
of Nahuatl and Mayan cosmological accounts (e.g. Legend of the Suns and Popul Vuh) in its style.
[After the Friars present
the message of Christianity and calling on the Nahua to convert, they respond…]
Seventh
There it is told what they responded,
by which they returned something, the ones who
offer things. 880
Our lords, speakers, beloved gentlemen,
you endured hardships,
indeed, when you came to approach this land.
Indeed, here before you, in front of you,
we see, we common people, 885
indeed, that he caused you to arrive, this man
our lord,
indeed, you came from there to govern
your honorable water, your honorable mountain.
From where, what kind of place is it,
this one from which you came, 890
the place of our lords, the house of the gods?
Indeed, from among the clouds, from among the
mist,
from within the divine waters you came out.
Indeed, He causes you to be the face, He
causes you to be the ears,
He causes you to be the lips 895
of the Possessor of the Near, Possessor of the
Surrounding.
Indeed, here, thus, we see Him as a man,
this one, He by Whom All Live,
the Night, the Wind, 900
indeed, you are His representative, you are
His substitute. (Fol. 35 v.)
Indeed, we seized it, we grasped it,
His breath, His word, this one of Our Lord,
Possessor of the Near Possessor of the
Surrounding,
This one you carried hither, 905
from this one who in the world, on the earth,
is the speaker,
this one who sent you hither on our behalf.
Indeed, here we are astonished by it,
indeed, by that which you carried hither,
His book, His painting, 910
the celestial word, the divine word.
A
And now, what, in what manner,
Indeed, what sort of thing will we say,
which we will raise to your honorable ears?
Are we, by chance, something? 915
Indeed, we are merely insignificant common
people,
we are covered with dirt, we are covered with
mud,
we are bruised, we are poor,
we are afflicted, we are sorrowful.
Indeed, the man, our lord, merely lent it to
us, 920
by which on the tip of his mat, on the tip of
his seat
he placed us.
Indeed, with one lip, two lips we turn it
back,
so that we returned His breath, His word,
this one of the Possessor of the Near,
Possessor of the Surrounding; 925
from near His forehead, near His hair we come
out.
Because of this we cast ourselves in the
river, in the precipice.
By it we search for it, by it we win it,
His anger, His wrath,
perhaps our hole, perhaps our destruction. 930
Have we, perhaps, been negligent in doing
things?
Oh, where, by chance, are we truly to go?
Indeed, we are common people,
we are destructible, we are mortal.
Oh, indeed, let us die. 935
Oh, indeed, let us perish,
since, indeed, the gods have died!
If only it would settle itself,
your honorable heart, your honorable flesh
(Oh, our lords). 940
Indeed, on account of this, we divide
something very little,
now, on account of this, we open it very
little,
his coffer, his hamper, this one of the man,
our lord.
B
You tell them,
indeed, that we do not know Him, 945
the Possessor of the Near, Possessor of the
Surrounding,
the Possessor of Heaven, Possessor of Earth.
You tell them,
indeed, that our gods are not real gods.
It is a new word, 950
this one you tell them,
and because of it we are distressed,
because of it we are extremely frightened.
Indeed, these our makers,
these who came to be, these who came to live
on the earth, 955
did not speak in this way.
Verily, they gave us
their law.
They followed them as true,
they served them, 960
they honored them, the gods.
They taught us
all their forms of serving,
their modes of honoring.
Thus, before them we eat earth, 965
thus, we bleed ourselves,
thus, we discharge the debt ourselves,
thus, we burn copal,
and, thus, we cause something to be killed.
They used to say that, 970
verily, they, the gods, by whose grace one
lives,
they merited us.
When? Where? While it was still night.
And they used to say,
indeed, they give us 975
our supper, our breakfast,
and all that is drinkable, edible,
this our meat, the corn, the bean,
the wild amaranth, the lime-leaved sage.
They are those from whom we request 980
the water, the rain,
by which the things of the earth are made.
C
Furthermore, they are rich themselves,
they are happy themselves,
they are possessors of goods, they are owners
of goods, 985
by which always, forever,
it germinates there, it grows green there,
in their house.
Where? What kind of place is it, the place of
Tlaloc?
Hunger never occurs there, 990
nothing is poor.
And also, they give to the people
prowess, courage,
the chase, and the lip-grass, 995
the instrument by which something is bound,
the loincloth, the mantle,
the flowers, the tobacco,
the precious green stones, the fine plumes,
the divine excrement.
D
And when, where were these thus summoned, 1000
when implored, when held as gods,
when honored?
It is already a very long time.
When? At another time it was in Tula.
When? At another time it was in Huapalcalco. 1005
When? At another time it was in Xuchatlapan
(Xochitlalpan?).
When? At another time it was in Tlamohuanchan
(Tamoanchan?).
At another time it was in Yohualichan
(Yoallichan?).
When? At another time it was in Teotihuacan.
Indeed, they, everywhere in the word, 1010
they caused the people to construct with
stones
their mat, their seat.
They gave to the people
the lordship, the dominion,
the fame, the glory. 1015
E
And, perchance, now, are we those
who will destroy it,
the ancient law?
The law of the Chichimecs?
The law of the Toltecs? 1020
the law of the Colhuaque?
The law of the Tepanecs?
Already our heart is this way:
through him one is made to live,
through him one is given birth, 1025
on account of him one is made to grow,
on account of him one is made to mature,
by means of this one who is summoned,
by means of this one who is implored.
F
Hear, our lords, 1030
beware of doing something to them,
this your precious tail, your precious wing,
so much the more so that it will be abandoned,
so much the more so that it will be destroyed.
In this way also the old man, 1035
in this way also the old woman had her growth,
had her increase in age.
Oh, that the gods be not angry with us.
Oh, that their anger,
their wrath, not come. 1040
And let us beware that on account of that
it not rise before us, on us,
the tail, the wing.
Let us beware that on account of that we not
stir it up,
let us beware that on account of that we not
provoke it, 1045
by saying to it:
no longer will it summon them,
no longer will it implore them.
G
In the meantime, calmly, peacefully,
consider it, our lords, 1050
whatever is necessary.
Indeed, our heart is not able to be full.
And, indeed, absolutely we do not yet agree to
it ourselves,
we do not yet make it true for ourselves.
We ourselves will cause you injury to the
heart. 1055
Indeed, here they lie,
the possessors of water, the possessors of
mountains,
the lords, the speakers,
these who carry it, these who bear it,
the world. 1060
It is enough that we have already left it
alone,
we have lost it, we have had it taken away,
we have had it prohibited,
the mat, the seat.
Indeed, [if] we will only remain there, 1065
we will only cause them to be restricted.
Do it to us,
whatever it is you will desire. (Fol. 36 v.)
Indeed, we return it all by this,
by this we respond to it, 1070
your precious breath,
your precious word,
our lords.
Eight Chapter
There it is told how they, 1075
the twelve Fathers,
responded to them,
those who offer incense.
When it finished, their word having ended,
the response of the ones who offer things, 1080
they, the twelve divine guardians,
at once said it:
If only you would not torment yourselves,
our beloved,
if only you would not understand it as an evil
omen, 1085
our word, the one we told you:
how, in what manner,
not one of the gods is real,
all these whom you regard as gods,
these whom you have continually implored. 1090
A
Please hear it.
If the gods were truly real gods,
perchance, would we not also regard them as
gods?
Perchance, would we not also request from them
our supper, our breakfast? 1095
And, likewise, would they not everywhere on
the earth
be summoned,
be implored?
Indeed, we are not merely inventing it,
this which we now tell you. 1100
Indeed, we know it well,
who they are, how they are,
those whom you regard as gods,
these whom you have continually implored;
where, and in what manner 1105
they began, they commenced,
who they were,
beyond there, at first;
and of what sort is their being, their heart,
their function, their will, 1110
and from where they came.
Indeed, we will tell you everything,
we will cause you to hear it,
if you desire it.
And we will be able to cause you to have a
full heart, 1115
because we guard it,
the divine book, the divine word,
there where it lies visible, it lies painted,
it lies arranged
all that which is His precious word, 1120
this one of the Possessor of the Near,
Possessor of the Surrounding.
This took place a very long time ago.
And that divine word
is very properly real, properly upright,
properly that which is followed as true. 1125
And everywhere on the earth, in the world,
it has been heard, it has been followed as
true.
There, from where we came,
there they lie not a few
possessors of water, possessors of mountains, 1130
and lords, speakers,
the ones who are very old,
the ones who are very strong,
the ones who are very wealthy,
the ones who are very much in possession of
things. 1135
B
And you, on its account,
you do not regard them as God,
you do not know to abandon them,
these wicked ones,
this one who is a deceiver of people. 1140
Because, indeed, you never heard it,
the precious word of God.
You did not guard it, the divine book,
the divine word.
It never came to reach you, 1145
His precious breath, His precious word,
this one of the Possessor of Heaven, the
Possessor of Earth.
And, then, you are blind,
you are deaf,
as if in darkness, 1150
in gloom, you live.
On account of this your faults are,
furthermore, not very great.
But now, if you do not desire to hear it,
the precious breath, the precious word of God
(this one He gives to you), 1155
you will be in much danger.
And God, Who has commenced your destruction,
will conclude it,
you will be completely lost.
C
When they heard it
these speakers,
at once they implored them, the divine
guardians,
they said to them:
Our lords,
indeed, here we grasp it, 1165
here we take it,
as it is, your precious word.
Let your precious heart, perhaps, permit
something,
that our heart may be full:
who are they, of what sort are they, 1170
from where did they come,
these whom we regard as gods,
these whom we implore?
And the twelve Fathers
said it:
Our beloved,
so that you will be able to hear it rightly,
that which you desire,
likewise, so that first we will cause you to
hear, 1180
we will manifest to you,
of what precious sort is
Our Lord God,
He by Whom all Live,
This One we came to show you. 1185
And, indeed, already it is late,
now, already, the time to eat is distant.
Tomorrow at dawn,
when the sun comes out,
everybody will come hither, 1190
here one will be assembled, something will be
heard.
For now all may depart,
please go,
eat something.
For now rest, 1195
let your heart be settled.